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Sophmom

Who said no one noticed the man bulge, delicate flower?

Courreges

Aaron,

>>New Orleans HAS huge populations of culturally Irish, Italian, German, Vietnamese, Czech, and French. We have whole neighborhoods NAMED AFTER THEM.>Jefferson Parish is a little suburb of New Orleans where people go to build their pre-fab homes and eat at one of their six chili's chain restaurants. It ain't New Orleans, never was.>I have PROOF we are tolerant people in our PRESENT POPULATION. You have none. You just disagree. That doesn't make you right, it just makes you ignorant.<<

What "proof of tolerant people?" All you've asserted is diversity, which doesn't equate acceptance and holding hands singing "Kumbaya."

Look, I was born in New Orleans but raised pretty much exclusively in Houston, and I've got to say that issues of tolerance and racism appear to be worse here than there. That's not a slam on New Orleans, mind you, especially since New Orleans has it certainly better than many cities (i.e. LA, New York, D.C.).

On the other hand, I don't see any basis for your assertion that New Orleans is somehow uniquely tolerant and therefore non-Southern.

Courreges

Aaron,

Sorry, last post mis-posted:

"New Orleans HAS huge populations of culturally Irish, Italian, German, Vietnamese, Czech, and French. We have whole neighborhoods NAMED AFTER THEM."

So does Houston. Houston has areas with STREET SIGNS in Vietnamese. It has another with street signs in Chinese. It also has large populations of persons with German, Irish, British, and Italian ancestory. This is true for virtually EVERY major southern city. I don't know how on earth this escaped you.

"Jefferson Parish is a little suburb of New Orleans where people go to build their pre-fab homes and eat at one of their six chili's chain restaurants. It ain't New Orleans, never was."

Fine. You just lost your claim to "diversity" of European ancestory. Most of the historic white population of New Orleans has moved to Jefferson Parish over the past 60 or so years. Without it, this population is dominated largely by transplants.

Secondly, anywhere else in the world you'd consider a suburb fifteen minutes outside of downtown as a part of the city, incorporated or not. I understand that there's an inexplicable hatred among some for Jefferson Parish (for not being "genuine" or some such nonsense), but it exists just outside of the city limits and is populated by persons with roots in this city.

"I have PROOF we are tolerant people in our PRESENT POPULATION. You have none. You just disagree. That doesn't make you right, it just makes you ignorant."

What "proof of tolerant people?" All you've asserted is diversity, which doesn't equate acceptance and holding hands singing "Kumbaya."

Look, I was born in New Orleans but raised pretty much exclusively in Houston, and I've got to say that issues of tolerance and racism appear to be worse here than there. That's not a slam on New Orleans, mind you, especially since New Orleans has it certainly better than many cities (i.e. LA, New York, D.C.).

On the other hand, I don't see any basis for your assertion that New Orleans is somehow uniquely tolerant and therefore non-Southern.

Courreges

senior,

"I'm sorry, Courreges, did you just say that Jeff Parish is a part of New Orleans?

That's a fatal mistake, pal.

New Orleans ends when you cross the parish line, period."

Sure, Jeff Parish is a part of New Orleans. It's a suburb of New Orleans that has, in fact, outgrown the city itself. If annexation were looser in Louisiana, it probably would be within the city limits.

If you'd like a correction, I'll only go in so far as to say that Jefferson Parish is a part of the New Orleans Metroplex or Metropolitan region, but isn't actually within the city limits.

Jonah

Yeah, I have to disagree with the assertion that Jefferson Parish is culturally separate from New Orleans. It's the same thing, the same people. Most of the inhabitants at one time lived in New Orleans proper or are 1 or 2 generations separated from family that did. For that matter I'd put St. Bernard and these days even St. Tammany in that same bucket.

We eat the same food, sound the same way when we talk and have a shared cultural memory.

Saying Jefferson Parish is not part of New Orleans is like saying Queens isn't part of NYC.

You just can't exclude the West Bank and Metairie from the metro mix and our resulting culture.

aaron

You continue to point out distinctions. You don't undermine my argument. And when you say "wrong" you then have to use a FACT to prove that point. You do not. That means you haven't proven anything to the contrary.

Read this, maybe some education will enlighten you. http://www.neworleansonline.com/neworleans/history/people.html

aaron

It turns out this isn't the first time you've been not only a jerk but guilty of a really bad argument, Courreges.

http://sandefur.typepad.com/freespace/2005/04/courreges_evade.html

ashley

Owen, the term "Metroplex" must not be uttered on this blog.

Please continue.

aaron

Courreges, if you somehow lived here for the past three years and still think New Orleans means Kenner, you didn't come away with much.

Courreges

aaron,

I can't really PROVE anything to the contrary because we're not dealing with a factual issue at the core; i.e. whether or not New Orleans is "southern" in some touchy-feely cultural sense as opposed to a geographic sense.

However, I will argue forcefully for my opinion on this issue, and I think I've done a good job in showing that your opinion doesn't have a solid factual basis. New Orleans is quite southern, and though possessing of a unique and valuable culture, is certainly not radically distinct from the rest of the south.

As for my argument with Sandefur, that's not relevant here, and calling me a "jerk" is uncalled for. But since you brought it up, my beef with Sandefur was that he was defending somebody who used a crass question against a Supreme Court justice, which I said was rude and uncalled for regardless of what your ideological beliefs are. Sandefur either didn't think it was rude, or thought it was justified or something else -- I couldn't really tell because his arguments were always a moving target. However, I tried to be civil there, a you should do the same here.

Courreges

aaron,

"Courreges, if you somehow lived here for the past three years and still think New Orleans means Kenner, you didn't come away with much."

Kenner is a part of New Orleans the same way Sugarland is a part of Houston; you're dealing with distinct suburbs, yes, but they're clearly a part of the same metropolitan area. I'm sure lots of people from Kenner, when dealing with people from out of state, simple say they're from New Orleans, or from a suburb of New Orleans -- and that's not inaccurate.

ashley,

Note that above I used the term "metropolitan area" instead.

aaron

The degree to which you disagree with my position stretches boundaries. For pulling out a personal attack, I apologize. It is your position which causes me angst.

I think your starting position as a "new orleanian" was dishonest however; you were raised in Houston, went to school there, and came to New Orleans for at best 2 years of law school, since I know as well as you do that Tulane Law wasn't holding classes here for quite a little while after August 2005. Two years of law school doesn't make you a native and it doesn't give you the credibility to make blanket assertions about this city being Southern like Texas is Southern - a position I think you'd be much more hardpressed to defend in Texas than here.

And New Orleans is way more progressive than a district that put and kept Tom Delay in office until he was forced to resign due to corruption. We have our own crooked politicians, but none of them even in the same ballpark of conservativatism as the Hammer.

I don't think you have the pulse of this city and I respectfully disagree with the conclusions you've reached.

Courreges

aaron,

"Two years of law school doesn't make you a native..."

Well, it's been at least two-and-a-half years, if you exclude the Katrina semester. And I returned in December, so you'd really only be deleting about four months.

And I'm a native because I was born here. My family moved to Houston when I was four. I've lived a total of six-to-seven years of my life in New Orleans, and I'm only 26.

"And New Orleans is way more progressive than a district that put and kept Tom Delay in office until he was forced to resign due to corruption."

You mean SUGARLAND? If Metairie isn't New Orleans, than Sugarland is like, Baton Rouge (it's approximately an hour outside of downtown Houston). To my knowledge, none of DeLay's district is actually in the city limits.

Downtown Houston is represented by Sheila Jackson Lee, who compares favorably with Jefferson in hubris, if not corruption. Gene Greene is also very liberal. Most if not all of the congressmen inside the Houston city limits are Democrats -- I'd have to check.

"I don't think you have the pulse of this city and I respectfully disagree with the conclusions you've reached."

I'm glad you're respectful, but I still think you have a unreasonably narrow conception of "southern" that doesn't mesh with most peoples' understanding of the word.

Courreges

Scratch that... At least Culbertson's district actually extents into Houston's city limits, although it's mostly suburban. However, I'd definitely reiterate that most of Houston's congresspersons are liberal Democrats.

Also, remember that Jindal represents a small portion of Orleans parish.

liprap

Courreges, man, I'm smelling a potential blog in your future. Will you be at RT II?

Seriously.

Courreges

liprap,

Oh, I had my own blog for years (www.courreges.us). I currently do still blog occasionally as a contributor to LoneStarTimes.com, a group blog I co-founded for KSEV radio in Houston while I was in college.

I have been thinking about starting another blog here in New Orleans. I'm not sure about RT II -- isn't it mainly for progressive bloggers? I'm squarely right of center, as many have probably guessed.

Aaron

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:TX22_109.gif

District in question, it covers more than Sugarland, and a subsantial area to the South of Houston and including parts inside the outer beltway, Houston proper.

I can agree to continue to disagree with your definition of the cultural South. Speaking as someone who was raised here, we aren't the South.

Courreges

Aaron,

Very little of District 22 extends into the Houston city limits, though. Jindal is still an apt comparison.

As for the cultural south notion, I'll just continue to note that I can get grits for breakfast almost anywhere, look around and see southern architecture everywhere, and do it all with Robert E. Lee looking down on me from Lee Circle. If that's not southern, then I still say your definition of southern is flawed.

liprap

As someone who was raised in Houston, I can certainly say that it wasn't until pretty recently that one could get grits outside the south. They are still tough to find in New York City.

I can say that one would be hard-pressed to find Brigtsen's pan-fried catfish with jalapeno cheese grits anywhere within the greater Houston area. ;-)

New Orleans is part of the capital-S south whether this city likes it or not. Sometimes I think we are simply continuing the great New Orleans patrician impulse of splitting hairs in order to establish our superiority - or our delusions of grandeur. New Orleans IS different from the rest of the south, and yet still a part of it.

And as for that right of center thing, Courreges, I fell out of that around the time Intercontinental Airport was renamed for Bush the Elder. You're young! There's still time!

Chad

My wife and I had the same feelings about him after watching the show. I think he missed most of what New Orleans is and ain't. looking for Georgia Sweet Tea in New Orleans is akin to finding a Borbon Street in Atlanta.

Now there is nothing wrong with Atlanta or Sweet Tea, they just don't fit inside New Orleans.

Melissa

Fascinating site and well worth the visit. I will be backd

utube

Very nice site. I enjoy your webcam the most. Beautiful scenery! Keep up the great work.

aruba wedding

i hate that this happen. drunbk drivers need to stay off the road. i am glad you are ok.

Bob

I can find the prayer I want. I thank God for this website.<

Blake Weddel

I also kissed the asphalt on my younger days. Back in college, I drove a Suzuki on my way to school. One day the road was so slick from the rain, I crashed head over heels. Thank God for my helmet and leather jacket, I avoided serious harm. But I did spend a few days in the hospital.

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